Audra :) (dsillusndbtrfly) wrote in audgepaudge,
Audra :)

Some terms and things to clear up

Newsflash: They are pointless. They don't fit. Putting someone into a standard old label does nothing but limit the cool people you could meet and be friends with. In the past two days I have been told that there is no way I could know what Bad Religion's lyrics are about and still like them. I've been called a poser. I've been told I don't know what punk is (more about that later). And all because I don't fit in someone's precious stereotype. In my opinion, we all need to stick to that old phrase---'don't judge a book by it's cover.' Everyone knows the stereotypes. It's time to get rid of them and be friends with someone because you want to be friends with them, not because they fit in your clique. Personally, I am ME. I listen to Bad Religion and Shakira. I wear bondage skirts and shirts from Old Navy or American Eagle. I hang out with preps, dorks, thespians, punks... Everyone. I refuse to limit myself and all that I can be to fit myself in some high school clique. So please stop putting me in one.

Um, guys, I hate to break this to you, but punk is not and never has really been about the clothes you wear or the music you listen to---yes, I mean, MOST (but not all) punks do dress a certain way or listen to certain music---but that's because the way they dress or the music they listen to matches their thoughts and opinions. Because that's what punk is about. It's a set of attitudes---being creative and original and expressive. Being aware of the world around you and not being afraid to criticize or try to make a change. Sometimes this is expressed in music. But not always. So stop thinking you can be punk because you wear clothes from Hot Topic... Stop thinking someone CAN'T be punk because they wear clothes from Hot Topic... Open your mind and then MAYBE you will understand the set of attitudes that are what really makes someone "punk."

What the hell kind of term is this? Nothing is new. Everything's been done before. Everyone mimics someone else in some way or another. It's all imitation and adaptation and being like something you've seen or heard. So what makes one person more poser than another person? This term is definitely outdated and overused.

Apparently, if a band is popular, they are "sellouts." Or if they alter their music at all, they are "sellouts." No one stops to think that perhaps a band wants people to like their music, wants people to buy their albums, and wants to be able to keep on rocking. Maybe a band changes because they're growing and changing as musicians. Maybe their taste has changed. Or maybe they really do just want to get some money. But it's their band, they're the ones rocking out, so let them make the choices they want to make, do what they want to do. And just because a band becomes popular, that doesn't mean that you have to stop listening to them. You obviously were never a true fan if you can stop listening to them just because *gasp* they got caught on MTV or your local "teenybopper" radio station. Who cares how popular they are or if other people listen to them? It's about the music---if you like the music, then none of the other stuff should matter, you should like the band.
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i i was walking in the HUB wearing my new incubus tour shirt...b/c the show was fucking awesome and i love them...and first these girls gave me this look like why are YOU wearing that i wasn't allowed to. like they knew me and my past and that i dunno....then i'm walking outside of the HUB and i pass by these other two girls who..even though i don't want to use stereotypes...anyway....they were "punks" said as i passed she's wearing that shirt and the same way that the other two "preppy, teeny bopper" girl looked at me. i mean what the hell...i have just as much right to wear the shirt of the band that i love not because their lead singer is hot but b/c i truly love their music as they have the right to wear theirs....bleh

also on another note...real punk is dead. whether anyone wants to believe it or is. most of the "punks" out there aren't really considered "real punks" like you said punk is more than the way you's standing up for yourself and being yourself. true punks are about being themselves and not letting people bring them down...among other things. most of those i see today that claim to be punk are not at seems to me they do it b/c it's a fad. now i'm not saying that there aren't any real punks out there...i know a couple. but for the most's dead....and that's about all i have to say. may have made sense it may not have...i can take from it what you will...
that makes lots of sense; i most definitely agree. need you back here so we can cuss out those teenybopperpunkwahtever wannabes...
I so agree with you! I am too myself to be a stereotype. I enjoy the assumptions people make about me. Well, used to. Ive got a reputation enough now where people know Im Mike Morella and thats all you can say about me. Ive got a personality and views like noone else and they arent views that anyone else would follow. Ive got all sorts of friends. Loser friends, popular friends, nerds, jocks, drinkers, and so much more. I would get bored with a single sort of people. A lot of my friends dont know each other so well, because I enjoy spending a lot of one-on-one time. Its like waking up to the same exact day everyday. Who would want that? People need some variable in their day and social life. I dont think that a person who calls themself a punk is a punk. Noone ever claims to be something unless they are seriously trying to be. Just be who you are and leave the stereotyping to others. And shiiiit, sellout? Its buying in.
lol, you rock! that's the best thing ever, i agree!
You would have made a great argument if you hadn't gone against what you were saying from the beginning. I mean no offense but only to point out what is confusing. If steroetypes are useless then why did you use them to classify who you hang out with?
"I hang out with preps, dorks, thespians, punks..."
I assumed you used that to give a description of the people you are acquainted with and these terms are the main focus of their lives. If that is so then stereotypes are incredible and extremely useful. They can be hurtful, rude, and ignorant but that is human nature in this society.
I have my classification as well. I am a loner. I love this stereotype because I prefer space from the people around me. Maybe beneath my skin there is the mind that screams for the attention and the respect but that is momentary things. Useless and unknown to the world.
People are expressed in the terms they use. If someone believes they are "Punk" then by all that is right in this world they are "Punk." That is them, they believe they fit that description and who knows more about a person than that person? I can think of one but that is a seperating line.
I mean no disrespect or hold up any defense against or for these stereotypes. I hate the noises of "ebonics" but if people wish to say "Bling Bling" or whatever the hell there is then they can be placed in a category. This category is not the extreme of their life but maybe just a focus in this term of time for them. I use to be a "teeniebopper" I think. I'm not sure what it is but before I met the right people I think I was one. Now I am somewhat of a rocker. I don't like punk music and I don't know the exact term for someone who prefers rock music. I am also a loner. That is my world for this period of time.
I only mean to say that these terms to classify humans are useful sometimes in learning a great deal about this person in a moment of time. If people don't wish to be read by their cover then maybe they shouldn't have one. That cover is meant to be expressive for you. That cover defines important details of a person's life. I never wished to be a loner but that is my cover, that is my isolation, it is my fault and it will be my reality.
I hope I am clear and not rude. I've said too much. From the derogative other, Daniel. END
i only labelled people to make my point---that the people that "fit in" certain labels--you can hang out with them no matter what label you are supposed to stick with, do you understand? i try my hardest not to label people and if i catch myself genuinely labelling someone and thus not getting along with them, i yell at myself and make myself be friendly until i realize the stereotype i created is silly and useless... does tthat make snese?

seems to me also, that if you look at the lyrics of punk bands of old, as well as the statements made by their clothing, and their principals, it was based largely on politics...i don't think most modern day "punks" really have a clue about how our country is being run politically...much less enough so to form their own valid and well thought out views.
this is true. very few people are well enough educated. working on the liberty bill taught me some facts about people's political awareness, and, you know, it's really quite sad that these people vote---when they know so little about the government that they are voting for. tsk tsk to them!

no kidding, lol...watching a video in gov't, and when asked to name a founding father a guy said "founding father of what?" (teenage boy) and then a GROWN WOMAN WITH A CHILD thought that jefferson was the first president of the US.

fucking stupid. and pretty scary too.
I tried to comprehend what you are trying to say but it seems irratably useless. I thought you were saying that calling someone a "punker" is a stereotype which it is. You stereotyped people in your words according to your beginning.
I don't know whether you are saying don't judge people by their stereotype or don't stereotype people. I am either in the dark or you are in the clouds.
If stereotypes are useless and pointless then why did you use them? What point are you trying to make? I thought I was clear but words are too stubborn to show the meaning of the mind. From the never ending Daniel. END
Woah! Dont jump to conclusions and attack her so quickly! Its hard to explain things to someone who is on the attack and is going to snap back at you before you can explain yourself completely. Its even harder when that person is a friend. Stereotypes are needed, yes, and even though her point may not have mentioned that, stereotypes arent always a good thing and when they are used so widely. I think when reading her entry you can see that the complaint is more over not being able to see all of a person by labeling them so quickly. It is clear she knows they exist and are used and she never said "I will never use a stereotype." She just commented that they caused more problems than good in the stage in your lives now, which is true. I was shocked to hear that in Audra's senior year, people still seperate themselves so much. In most of the high schools I know of, this wasnt the case. You got over your little attitude and hung out, or at least talked to anyone you wanted. It was based on personality, humor, and compatibility. She isnt discussing a complete ban of stereotypes, because it cant be helped, and sooner or later, you have to use one. Hell someday you may have to testify as a witness to a crime and may have to say, "The guy who did it can be described as the perfect stereotype of white trash." haha, yeah its extreme, but you never know. I dont want to put words in Audra's mouth, so if I am, I apologize. I just think I understood what she was saying a bit more. Perhaps we are all using the term stereotypes too widely? Im think we should all be saying cliques. This is much better for a discussion of high school groups as people are all different in the groups, but because they are all seen together and hang out only in that group, they are seen just as another member that is off limits unless you are with the certain clique. hehe, this is much like a debate, but we need to calm down a bit on attacking others instead of their views.
he's right. it's not so much as the labels as using the labels to judge someone. and i really actually do try not to use them in my every day speaking. i admit that i do though. the human mind will always accidentally at first fit people into groups because it's easier to "understand" someone that way. BUT the thing that is wrong is taking that first judgement and using it to assume you know everything about that person. assuming that they are just EXACTLY like the stereotype before you ever even speak to them. like someone assumign that i do not know bad religon's lyrics because to them i am a goody-goody dork girl. so before they ever speak to me, they assume things about me, that are canNOT logically be assumed by that first impression. if they had assumed that i liked to wear PJ pants and write (i was writing in my journal the first day i saw this kid) then their assumptions would have been based on logic. but when you assume to know things about a person SIMPLY because of the label you decided to place on them??? that is when i dislike stereotypes. does that make any more sense?
Alright, you say contrary things. I understand now. You are willing to use stereotypes but only to classify the people as to what they like not to classify their opinions. If other people can not realize this already then your words will change nothing in them. Opinions are to far of a blaze to have groups of people defined to their exact way of life. These stereotpyes are only to have a feel of what they are beneath. Just as the three words: optimistic, pessimistic, and the all right realistic. Just because I am pessimistic doesn't mean that I don't believe there is good in the world. Just because you are optimistic doesn't precisely mean you believe the world is all great and nothing is wrong with it. We are all truly realists in some ways but what we go under is what we lean towards farther.

TO lordodius, the guy I hate most at the moment:
When I ask questions that means I have no conclusion so that makes the first part of your comment to me completely irrelevant and useless. You were also trying to answer a question directed at the writer. Even though she agreed with you, you were still out of line and rude just as this comment is too. While reading what you said I didn't really see an answer as well. It seemed mostly like the jibbering of a ten-year old girl trying to express her emotions, her view of the world or another person. You also tried to make it look as if Otter and I are friends. We are nothing of the sort but merely acquaintances. This makes it so that she can say anything to an attack to express what she understands even though it wasn't an attack on her opinion.
Truly I am just being an asshole because of my contempt for you but in either case I don't really care any more. No one can trust my words or the words of others because they are based on the soul bias position that they live in. Emotions are the walls of the ears and the clouds of the stars.
Daniel, I do not think that you are listening to what I am saying. I don't like stereotypes. But the human brain will automatically associate people with one group or another. Thats hwo it is. THEN people take it too far and assume things---any kind of assumption whether it is their opinion, their likes, their homelife... ALL OF IT IS WRONG! I'm just asking for people to get to know one another, not to assume anything.

Secondly, I am not sure how I see Matt's (lordodious) comment as rude in any sort of way. He was simply trying to clear things up because we had a discussion about this subject the other night; I'm SURE he was just trying to help. But you were rude---and even if he had been rude first, that's not acceptable. I am asking EVERYONE, once again, to keep this discussion fun and to keep your minds open! Listen to each other! Please!

Thirdly, on a personal level, I want to know when we became acquaintances, instead of friends? If that's how you want it to be, then alright I guess, whatever. I just don't understand why you constantly go through this cycle of us being good friends to acquaintances to you hating me and then abck again to good friends. *Sigh*
The thing is, you didnt seem to question as much as you attack. I understand the normal point of questioning, but I didnt see that from you. I wouldnt have even commented here if I didnt feel that I could have helped solve the debate, as it should have been, and if I didnt feel it was getting nowhere because of how your reactions were, I would have passed. I apologize if I jibber and jabber like a ten-year-old girl, I guess thats my limitation as a writer. And friend, acquaintance, or rival, you dont attack someone or their opinion like that in debate. Otherwise it becomes a very impertinent argument. No, people can trust yours and others words as well because there are a few people out there who look at others with open minds. Oh and Audra. The names Mike. Hehe, no worries!
I'm so sorry about that, lol! I was awfully tired/sick yesterday and I was like AH I CAN'T REMEMBER! :( But now I've got it under control :P At least I got the 'm' part right, huh? Anyways, thanks for your help, I'm glad that you added your opinion and tried to help clear things up, that's what this is all about.
Lordodius was making the assumptions here. Stick to your morals otter and defend them in your territory. He assumed that I was making conclusions which is confusing. He also bargained the thought that I was being aggressive when trying to figure out whether you mean judge people by their personality not there stereotype or just don't stereotype.
To you dismay I am still in the dark. I am beyond close-minded to understand what you mean because my eyes are glazed I supose. I guess I read too closely or too far away. Either way I'll just accept your words to be the extreme truth and you are infathomable here.
I know I am being unreasonable but I can be nothing else because I refuse to understand possibly. Maybe my mind is too stubborn or some other psychological error. Forget this discussion and forget my oposition.
As your all righteous lordodius said, I jump to conclusions too fast and am too aggressive. Good bye
lets see:
i listen to punk music
i go to the shows
i play in a local punk band (old school punk, with political lyrics, not whiny popemo music)
i have bright blue hair
i dont give a fuck what others think of me
I'm always the one to do something differently, my own way
i despise authority, and try to undermine it anyway i can
i have my own views on the world, that i put a lot of thought into
i dont watch mtv, or tv at all, for that matter...

would i consider myself a 'punk'?
no, actually i wouldnt. i'm an individual, and the word 'punk' has lost its meaning in this world.
i've got some news for all the newfoundglory kids who think that they are part of this punk rebel thing:
punk is completely dead. there are some revivalists around today desecrating its rotting corpse. punk used to be about poilitics, and rebelling against societys imposed rules and norms. sadly, today its nothing more than a gimmick, a fad, a trendy syndicated advertisement, and the majority of 'punk' music today has NOTHING to do with politics and is no way socially concious. they whine about their girls, talk about parties, and while they play 3 or 4 powerchords at a fast tempo, its trancended punk, and is now something completely different: pop
good charelotte, clad in their mohawks and chains, sing about being rich and wealthy, while they flash anarchy symbols accross the screen.
buying into the hot topic pop punk/emo thing is NOT rebelling, you're just contributing to the desecration of something that once had relevance.

i'm not so coherent right now, so this rant may not make a lot of sense, its hard to transfer ones veiws into words. and if this pissses off some people... honestly, i couldn't care less
interesting. i agree mostly. what punk once was about is long gone. it's transformed into something the original punks prob would not be so proud of, this is true... even tho i like good charlotte and hot topic, i can see where you're coming from. cool stuff, lots to think about...



September 29 2002, 17:44:33 UTC 14 years ago

Great movie^.
I am against you Mr. Z, ALWAYS. Rebellion seems to be a difficult thing to have. It has been done so much that when many people are doing the same thing to go against something it is no longer seen as rebellion but rather a trend.
When something is changed such as 'punk' and it no longer reflects its original status then it is something else even though it just adapted to the ever changing society for reasons unknown. Strange how this is how life is represented.
I wonder if Canada started a rebellion against Britian that it would be considered a trend and no longer rebellion just because it has been done before.
I ponder if we are the peoples of the United States even though we have changed so much to the common world.
Reality seems to be a trend and nothing else is new or original.
I am one to refuse reality for what it really is yet this is a trend not rebellion, not original. I'll live with that(been said before, not original but a trend).